YOUR COMMENTS

my in laws live two houses down, how scary, you think because you live in the woods you will be unbothered and safe, how scary sad and senseless.
- kate ungerer, hagerstown md

In Texas the other two young men would have been charged with murder as well. Even if they did not know it was going to happen (and these guys DID know), and even if they were just driving the getaway car, and even if they were unarmed. Because the homicide occurred during the commission of a crime, all participants are charged with the homicide. Then the plea-bargaining begins.....
- Bethe, Houston, TX

To all who keep asking who called 911.
Jamie Cates did. The 11 year old girl.
She called.
- Deb, Nashua NH

My condolenses go to the family. I can't even fathom the sadness and anger they must be feeling from being a victim of a random act of extreme violance. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Hopefully the two that are not being charged w/ murder are fully cooperating, helping solve the case for the State, taking full responsiblity for their actions - and will get the maximum penalty for robbary and conspiracy. I can't see the DA's office striking a deal like this without this happenning.

For the other two, they not only murdered and tortured somebody, but they ruined many people's lives. Their actions are irreversable..... Hopefully justice prevails.
- matt, bedford, nh

There are far too many idiots on this board who keep stating, "The death penalty is 100% effective as a deterrent."

Really? Following your logic there would be no murders in states with the death penalty. However, (as we all know), there are.

You CAN state that the death penalty is 100% effective in stopping convicted people from repeating their crime. But it didn't stop them in the first place. Life in prison with no possibility of parole is also 100% effective in stopping convicted people from repeating their crime.

This murder reminds me of my neighbor when I was a kid in Concord, Helen Ring. She was murdered [her 98 lb body stabbed dozens of times and put into a refrigerator] by some dirt bag.
- Shawn, Milton

@Rick, Bradford

The reason why death row inmates are not in gen pop is that they have nothing to lose. Many of them are true sociopaths and have no qualms killing another human (inmate or guard). Remember, not everyone in prison is a murderer. There are people who committed non-violent/white collar crimes and are paying their dues to society. No need to make them face true monsters.
- Shawn, MIlton

I think Aaron's comments are pretty reasonable. He said he wants the suspects jailed for life if they are guilty rather than paying for them to take the easy way out. If I were given the choice, I'd much rather be sentenced to death than life in prison without the possibility of parole. Hell, I'd rather get the death penalty than 10-15 years behind bars. Imagine how these skinny kids are gonna be treated when they enter the state prison. Seriously. It's gonna be a (deserved) nightmare for them.

I can understand why people support the death penalty, but come on, do any of you honestly think it deters crime? Does the possibility of life in prison make thugs think twice about robbing, raping and murdering? I doubt it. They know they'll likely face consequences for their actions, but they do it anyway because they're immoral and don't care.

At the same time, I think if New Hampshire does have the death penalty, it at least has to make sense. Now you can only be sentenced to death if you a) kill a police officer b) hire someone to murder for you or c) kill someone during a drug deal. I find it odd that the circumstances would be different for these kids if they had been dealing the home's occupant drugs. How that's worse than murdering an innocent mother and nearly killing her child at random is beyond me.
- Mike, Manchester

these kids are sick! and I would be ashamed to all hell if i was their parents! hardly could call them kids almost young adults, 4 all knew better, all should have been taught right from wrong, blaming this on games music or movies or even drugs is absurd! (before it gets brought up) All I know is if we can give a death penalty to a man who shot a cop then we damn sure can give it too these kids for viciously hacking and stabbing a women to death and then turning there hate towards a little girl. Should be no mercy no justice for any of these kids, specially the ones who didn't do the killings they had the power to prevent that! The hell is going on in my State!
- AJ, Plymouth

I'm no believer in the death penalty for sure ...

however, that said, when these kids go to prison and the inmates learn that they stabbed a little girl?!? They may wish they did get death. If they're lucky, they'll only get the girls name carved into their head (google Katie's revenge).
- michael, Manchester NH

Its high time New Hampshire jumps on the bandwagon with the likes of Florida. This insanity that we are witnessing of late with kids running around with no respect for their parents or society, for that matter, is out of control. Come on Lynch et al., make examples of these vermin and make it known to everybody. Capital punishment for this crime is justified -and dont waste our taxpayers dollars on housing them beyond the trial.
- glenn, keene

execute
- Karyn, New Hampton

I favor the death penalty for truly heinous crimes because it is appropriate punishment, not because it’s a deterrent. People intent on committing these crimes will commit them without regard to the consequences.

The problem is partly as Stephanie says. To start, there is no common courtesy. Frankly, I don’t think most people know what that is. If you’ve sat in a travel lane in your car waiting to turn left while oncoming traffic just keeps coming and coming and coming as if you weren’t there, you know what I mean. That seems to be the norm.

So how does that relate to teenagers committing a brutal murder? It’s a big step on the one hand, but on the other it fits like a glove. Underneath it all, we’ve either lost all sense of right and wrong or we’re too lazy to teach our kids the difference—and call them on it. Ahhhhhh but they’re just kids—and what makes us so smart anyway??… We need the courage to give out less Ritalin and more discipline and set some boundaries. We are after all the adults.
- Jim L, Bedford

I am sick of reading about how these four boys should rot in hell, receive the death penalty, or be used to test drugs. It seems to me that these were frowned upon before this incident. Now that such an event happened in our community, everybody has their mind changed. We are taught throughout childhood to not judge others, yet I still read comments to the effect of "these are obviously not the same kids that did boy scouts." Come on, like anybody that has left a comment knows any of the four boys well enough to make such a call.

I am not saying that they are innocent... please do not get me wrong. I am however saying that there are many people who need to get their head on straight. Each of those young men have families like you and I. They all had birthday parties, friends, and had favorite foods like you and I. Sure, they screwed up very badly, and will forever suffer consequences, as will the victims and their families.

Rest in peace Kimberly Cates, and speedy recovery for Jaime.
- Grant, Amherst, NH

They actually INTENDED TO KILL everyone in the house! How bad are things becoming in this world. One kid had no record and went along with this anyway?

Tragic! So tragic in a small NH town where such crimes do not often occur. As well, the ages of the perps blows my mind.

Today, an alarm system is most essential. I have Infrared, Video, and the house is surrounded by audio detection devices. I can hear someone walking almost a block away.

If you don't have an alarm system, get one. You'll sleep much better. As well consider firearms and the training that is so critical in knowing when to use deadly force and when NOT TO. We still have the right to protect ourselves and property in NH.

I am also armed with several firearms. Sounds like we live in a war zone and that's exactly what it seems to be coming to. I have already had one attempted home invasion and one burglary.

I was aware of the burglary as it was happening (in the driveway) but chose not to leave the house armed because it was a misdemeanor and I thought, at the time the perps were minors. I chose instead to call police who apprehended them a few blocks away.

Knowing when to use deadly force is critical in situations like this and handgun owners need to know the law BEFORE they act. If they had succeeded their attempt to invade my home I would then held them at gunpoint or used deadly force if THEY were armed..

The police can't be everywhere and it is our right and duty to protect life and property especially a home invasion while armed.

My thoughts and prayers go out to this family.
- BA, Derry

if these monkeys invaded and hacked a mother of a man who worked in law enforcement, there would be no questions about the death penalty.
- Karyn, goffstown, nh

Howie Carr read several of these comments on his show on WRKO 680 this afternoon. He gave Aaron of Hooksett the ridicule he so richly deserves.
- Spike, Brentwood NH

Sam in Portsmouth. I'm not sure you understand what 'deterrent' means. The DP is only 100% effective against recidivism.
- scott, bedford

Lets get some perspective.
This is a truly awful crime.
However hundreds of thousands of teenagers across NH did not killanyone last weekend. Or the weekend before. Or next weekend.They do not all deserve to be tarred with the same brush.

These crimes we commited by individuals who have individual repsonsibility.

Secondly, Aaron is correct. Any objective rational analysis of the death penalty shows it does not make us safer, it does not deter crime and it costs far more than life without parole.

The murder and violent crime rates of western europe are all less than the US - and none of them have the death penalty. Even in America, the States with the death penalty do not have lower murder rates than those without.

Other factors cause people to kill - and the DP really has no influence on these.

This is a truly awful crime, lets not make it worse by exploiting it for political posturing.
- Leon, Manchester

I think people are either capable of murder or their not. When the Manson gang went on their killing spree Linda Kasabian was with them and didn't participate cause she wasn't a killer and shortly thereafter ran away from the commune when she realized they were just a bunch of killing devils. These kids are killers and they proved it (if they are guilty). Look at them they look like a bunch of nazi's and nazi's are nothing but killers. My kids knew better than to ever bring nazi's home or to hang out with them.
- Joanne P., Manchester

@Bob
Autumn is(was?) a friend of Spader's from Brookline. Spader seems to have been at his house that weekend but Autumn wasn't one of the four. I doubtful he knew what was going to happen.

@Kathryn Marchocki
The "had an awesome time" is misleading. The time spent with Autumn and Spader was a different event than the time with Spader and the other two boys. Granted, it's chilling to see the way a person can maintain the illusion of normalcy after an event like this, but "awesome time" is probably not a direct statement about the murder.

Commendations to the police for their quick arrests. My prayers go out to the Cates family.
- student, Brookline

Comment to Debbie from NH: BRAVO!!! May every parent of a child read your principles for dealing with teenagers.
- John, Northfield

How can the parents of the kids say they're living a nightmare?
What do you think the Cates family is going thru? They were a family of three now they're only a family of two.
And to think these kids came from the towns of Amherst & Brookline
- Trixie G., Bedford NH

Executions may cost a lot of money but aren't they considered more of a one-time fee?
- Kellie, Manchester

Whoa! Ray, Pembroke. Way off base regarding bad reporting.

The details you speak of are held by the police and Attorney General's office as part of a homicide investigation. That, or any part of that, investigation, may be withheld to the public and not subject to Freedom of Information Act disclosure.

It may be released, or revealed in court filings or proceedings, but it may not until such time as the cases against these individuals are concluded - and even then some may be sealed; especially when it pertains to a minor.

Reporting has nothing to do with what you may want to know, but don't, right now.

But this lack of understanding of many of the basics has made this entire matter one of difficult and uninformed discussion; to a big degree.

For instance, 17 is an adult under present NH law. These are not little boys and this is not a children's crime.

Wailing about the death penalty does not fix anything, nor the advice to get a gun.

Other than to let us know where somebody stands on those issues.

In some instances, the comments made only show how ignorant the writer is.

And some shine with exquisite insight, compassion, and understanding.

It sure seems to me that many, many are just in a hurry to rush out and blame - anything - without knowing what the heck they're talking about.

Maybe, just maybe, these blogs are a sign of social illness - as much as anything else.

I certainly am questioning that. When the sister of the murder victim is prompted to write to say "what are you talking about?"

That says something.
- RP, New Boston

It should be known that if or when the death penalty statute is revised, it cannot be invoked on a retroactive basis. That is to say they will not be executed. As for the others on death row in NH, do not become comfortable with their sentences, it has yet to work its way through the NH Supreme Court and the Federal Courts...it'll be years, if ever it occurs.
- Herman Bishop, Adams, MA

Dennis from Londonderry...I am so glad you have brought this up. As I too found the "Horrorcore" link a little too obvious to ignore. Apparently there is a whole subculture of teens following this brand of "music". For those who don't know "Horrorcore" and their ilk are "bands" that are rap in nature and lyrics are all about murder and violence of the most disturbing fashion. While I have never been one of these types that blame music for all the ills of the world but this "music" is extremely disturbing and have a huge following, most can be found on Facebook. Some of these "fans" and creators have already engaged in violent home invasions and murders. If you have teen children, take a peek at their Facebook or Myspace pages, find out who they are talking to and what they are talking about. Do your part as an active parent to help keep all of us safe from sensless violence like what happened in Mont Vernon. Don't let this little girls suffering go in vain.
- Marie, Moultonboro

At the ages of 17 and 19, these are no longer "kids", they are young adults and should be held accountable for their actions. They knew right from wrong.

And I agree, we should have more stringent laws like Florida. No bail for murderers at any amount! An eye for an eye... a life for a life. Why should taxpayers foot the bill for the likes of murderers - give them no freedom but feed them, house them, clothe them, free medical care and prescriptions, give them work to do, and they can even get a college degree at no cost to them.

Our culture is WAY too soft on violent offenders.
- LR, Weare, NH

I realize it's early days and facts are still coming to light, but I feel there has been a lot of bad reporting to this point.

I have yet to read some very basic facts about the case -- How were the victims found? Did the daughter manage to call 911? And, how did the police make the arrests so quickly? Did one of the four brag about his role? Or, might there have been a witness who saw the car leaving the area?
- Ray, Pembroke

I am so sorry for David and Jaime.

My heart also goes out to the parents of the teens/adults that did this. I know you probably didn't raise your children to kill.
- Maria, Manchester, NH

Reading through all the readers' comments to this point, the back and forth about who is to blame (just the killers? their parents? video games? society at large?), I'm reminded that this crime is hardly unique, sadly, and that other, similar crimes have invited similar responses and debates. It is natural to want to find an answer, the real underlying cause, and to want to apply that knowledge to help avoid similar crimes in the future; sometimes there is no good explanation, however.

For more about this broad subject and the community response I recommend the book Columbine, by Dave Cullen. Also, the so-called 'Horrorcore' murders that happened very recently down in Virginia also have eerie parallels.
- Dennis, Londonderry

What about the 4 girls who were with these guys earlier in the night?

Chris wrote on his facebook “had an awesome time with steve and autumn!” who is autumn?

Why are Marks and Glover not being charged with first degree murder? The prosecutor says they went into the house with the intention of killing the inhabitants.

Where were they before the killings took place? Between 9pm and 3am. Watching Dexter at someone’s House?

Who called 911 Marks? Glover? Autumn? Marks girlfriend?

Who else knew they were going to rob the house?
- Bob, Manchester NH

Governor Lynch, if you're reading this...I know there is no grounds for the death penalty here...but I see no use for people like these in our society. They suck up our tax dollars. I think that they should be executed or used to test vaccines or put in a hard labor camp. As a tax payer, I'm sick of picking up the tab for the bottom feeders of this society. Can you help us out a bit here?
- tracy, manchester

Kendo, the UL has the text of NH's capital murder statute linked on its website today. The death penalty can only be applied in capital murder cases, and this case is not one of them. The prosecutors and the courts can't change the definition of capital murder to fit the facts of this case. If you don't like it, then you can ask your legislator to change it.
- Jay, Manchester, NH

For all the commentors who want to blame the parents, abuse, video games, TV or whatever, some people are just born sociopaths. Despite outward appearances of normalcy and high intelligence, they lack a moral compass. Other people are born followers, and despite a moral compass, can be led astray by a charismatic sociopath. Other commentors have noted that this crime is similar to the Zantop murders a few years ago near Dartmouth. If you read the book "Judgment Ridge: The True Story Behind The Dartmouth Murders", you may gain some insight how seemingly normal kids can commit outrageous murders.
- Chris L, Manchester

Let's save all of our judgment for another time and just send our prayers and or thoughts to that little girl who is still fighting for her life in the hospital right now. What we need now is love and compassion not more hate and judgment!
- Alison, Brookline

Mike - I do think she is doing things on the up and up...her grades/class rank/GPA all prove it - along with being able to hold a full time job and pay for her own car insurance. I think I did a pretty good job.
I wasnt making this about myself either - parents are up in arms about how kids need to be watched and "parented" even as late teens - and I was just justifying that statement.
Kids ARE supposed to make mistakes, screw up and suffer the consequences - its the PARENTS job to make sure they know the difference between the three and are supposed to be there to enforce the rules when living under their roof.
Any parent that turns their head or ignores "COMMON" warning signs is asking for trouble. How can a parent sleep at night knowing their 17yr old is god knows where at 4am and not answering calls/texts? Its easier to just pretend it isnt happening I guess.
- Dana, Raymond

Life in prison without parole is a much harsher sentence.
- Aaron, Hooksett, NH

Not when they have a gym, cable tv, etc. A hard labor camp, maybe. Not the prisons we have in this country.

There are a few kids on my street that are younger than 10 but already headed down the wrong road with no parental guidance. They have bullied other children and been rude and disrespectful to another parent while their mother was standing right there and she flat out ignored their behavior. I shudder to think that they could turn into something like this.
- Stephanie, Salem

Having the death penalty apply to these crimes most likely wouldn't have prevented these 4 from carrying out the act. States that have the death penalty for murder still have murderers, therefore it isn't 100% effective as a deterrent since it doesn't deter from the crime being carried out. It is 100% effective at preventing them from murdering innocent civilians again, but so is life without the possibility of parole.
- jon, hooksett

After reading through the message board I am in the state of shock some people think that because these four people are "children" they should not be held accountable for their actions as an adult would. These four found a home that was isolated, decieded they were going to rob the home and then came to an agreement that if anyone was home they were to kill them. I guess I fail to see where a 17 year old young adult should not be held accountable for this to the extent an adult would.(Rehab is for someone who needs to get off drugs not for people who murder) Clearly stated they each made up their own mind as what was going to happen once inside the home and to the family asleep inside. I have no mercy for these cowards who entered a home in the early morning hours to murder a sleeping women and her helpless daughter. You will be judged a panel of your peers and then after that you will be judged by the powers that be and your TRUE justice will be served then. My prayers are with The Cates family!
- HKelley, Hooksett

Hey Aaron, The US has the Highest Number of inaarcerations in the world. I would checkout other countries, in some countries, if you are drug dealer, and caught ( death penalty). Check out some of the numbers:In 2008, at least 2,390 people were executed in 25 countries around the world and 8,864 people were sentenced to death in 52 countries. Amnesty International reports that executions almost doubled in number from 1,252 in 2007. Ninety-five percent of all known executions were carried out in only six countries: China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the United States, Pakistan and Iraq.
Countries with the Most Confirmed Executions in 2008
1. China (1,718) 4. United States (37)
2. Iran (346) 5. Pakistan (36)
3. Saudi Arabia (102) 6. Iraq (34
____________________________________
And to Ann, I have seen parents (who have never even had a speeding ticket) arrested, and put in jail for giving their kid a good crack when they deserved it, because the way these laws are written, and who writes the laws, Politicians. Parents should be able to disipline their kids within reason when they needed it, not have to be afraid of being arrested.
- KN, Chester,NH

Well said "Mike of Manchester"! I couldn't agree more! Kids do not dictate or call the shots!! IN MY HOUSE ITS MY RULES!! Step over the line and prepare to suffer the consequences!! Follow the rules and everyone is happy, break the rules and get a swift kick in the ass!! Why are so many parents AFRAID of their kids? It is about time we start parenting our kids like PARENTS!!! Kids don't get to call the shots, set the rules or tell their parents what they can and cannot do! Grow up folks and take responsibility for what YOU HAVE CREATED!!! Had you been paying attention to your kids this could have all been AVOIDED!!!!! Great job!!!! Take your heads out of the sand and start being responsibile for your own....children are a product of their environment.....take a hard look around you!!
- SHERYL, MILFORD

dana in raymond this isn't about you. plus you must be taking your kids 'friends' drugs if you think she's doing everything on the up and up. its part of being a kid and learning whats right and wrong
- james, manchester

Remember the poor Cates family and what they suffered when Schumer, Feinstein, Boxer and Lautenberg try to take your guns.
- Jack, Bradford

After reviewing so many comments and being new to the New England area, one glaring omission is the reality that we live in a sin filled culture. The total depravity of man is what brings these things on. Only the spectacular gets the attention of the human mind anymore. We don't need more of this or that, or clergy. We need to recognize that the world needs a saving relationship with Jesus Christ. There are actually only two kinds of people in the world—those that know Jesus Christ as Savior and those who do not. It does not matter whether you are athiest, Muslim, Protestant, Catholic or whatever, if you have not trusted Christ all is naught. My prayers go out to the victims of this horrible crime and to all those who are raising young people in this Godless culture. Yes I have two teenage daughters here in Manchester. I love this area, but am so concerned that what was once a great state has turned away from Godly values and has embraced nothingness. This is not so much an immoral culture, but an amoral one where without the truth of God's Holy Word, there is only nothingness. A void that is being filled with the things of the devil. On a positive note I say read the book of John in the Bible and learn how to become a Child of His. Amen
- adolph, Manchester

For those calling for their pound of flesh and the use of the death penalty, people aren't against the death penalty because we are for coddling people like this, it's because it's such an inexact science. While this case certainly seems to be an open and shut one, what about those cases that aren't. When the governor of Illinois put a moratorium on the death penalty, he did so after 13 men, convicted and on death row, were found to be innocent after DNA and other testing. Are you willing to put 13 innocent men to death simply so you can execute these four? No one is questioning the tragedy of this case or the need for a harsh penalty, but I don't want my tax dollars spilling innocent blood so we can feel safer at night.
- Bill, New Boston

Let criminals of this caliber contribute to society by being guniea pigs for the testing of vaccines and drugs.
- L.M., Milford NH

Laura, no on who has ever been sentenced to death and executed has ever gone on to commit another homicide. The death penalty is 100% effective as a deterrent.
- Sam, Portsmouth

There are a bunch of parents of teens out there that are less and less involved in their teens' lives. I myself have a 17yr old daughter and I have found out about friends that smoked pot and drank while driving - my daughter was forbidden to have friendships with these friends as long as she was living under my roof. Not to mention - there is such a thing called GPS tracking - I highly suggest that ALL parents of teens who have cell phones get it. For $5 a month - you can find out where your kid is at any time - and if they truly are where they say they are going to be. Ive used it to my advantage MANY times and with this has come consequences which in turn teaches my daughter that if she screws up or makes bad decisions - MOM is watching! ;)
As far as these kids go - its obvious that thee parents didnt give a crap about what they did - These kids are what most communities call "bad seeds". Gangs in Amherst NH? Come on! How many "thug life" kids have I seen here in Raymond that try to emulate what they see on TV - its typical behavior of small town wimps. I moved here from one of the nastiest neighborhoods in Brooklyn NY - Id love to see these kids acting all tough down there. Parents - set your kids straight - nothing is wrong with expressing yourself and being unique - but if you know your kid is a punk - whip him/her into shape. Its your duty as a parent!
- Dana, Raymond

Note to those who have commented on my previous comment: I in no circumstance am advocating for these kids being released if they in fact are guilty of this crime. These ARE kids. People are not monsters. Monsters don't exist. Why do so many people in this country adhere to such an old way of thinking: "An eye for an eye." We are the only developed nation in the world (with the exception of Japan) that continues to use the death penalty. I seem to remember my mother telling me that two wrongs don't make a right. We can't murder murderers, and making it legal doesn't make it right. Life in prison without parole is a much harsher sentence. "An eye for an eye and soon the whole world is blind." - Mohandas Gandhi
- Aaron, Hooksett, NH

All the folks that are calling for putting these kids behind bars after earlier incidents think what you are saying. You want your kid to be thrown in jail for serious time because he gets into a scuffle with other high school kids while in possession of drugs. That is what you are saying. Throw the thousands of people in that situation in prison for years just to keep a few crazies off the street. Hey, it would solve the unemployment problem. Everyone would either be building a prison, working at a prison or in prison.
- Steve B, Derry

Someone please explain to me why killing a cop can lead to the death penalty, but butchering a woman in her bed does not.
- Kendo, Newbury

With all these calls for the expanding the State’s death penalty, I wonder if they are any bills introduced in this session to do that. It will be interesting to see who votes for or against it or if the leadership lets it die in committee.
The death penalty may not always be a deterrent but it insures the public at large from the misguided decisions of future politicians and their appointed bureaucracy when they decide to release violent offenders before the end of their sentences. Like the “Sentencing Reduction Board” created by the Governor and his State Corrections Commissioner.
- Chris, Merrimack

Kathleen in Chester,

Clyde was a career criminal before he met Bonnie.

As to your more fundamental "struggle," read up on Clarence Darrow's defense of Leopold & Loeb. Deterministic considerations like the ones you raise are still pondered by philosophers on both sides of the question. You can now count yourself among them.
- Chris Leger, New Boston

The fact that the death penalty may not be a deterrent is irrelevant. It is the only just punishment for capital crimes. If you commit first degree murder than the proper payment is to forfeit your own life.
- Naomi, Newport

Debbie, NH
You are so right. Parents should be checking Myspace and facebook. If your child is on it, get em off of it. If they abuse it, get em off of it. If they come in at 4AM and break curfew, question the heck out of your kid. I have a teenager and I check the myspace, facebook even the cell phone bill to see how much time is being spent on the phone. I have pulled the cell phone away, I have gotten rid of the myspace and I still monitor the facebook. The day my teenager thinks they can tell me what to do is the day the punishment gets more severe.
Time for parenting 101. We are parents. We do not bow down to our kids. We dictate what they do and when they do it. The kids don't dictate anything. Time for parents to bring in the reins and if the teenager doesn't like it...too bad. Those are the rules.
- Mike, Manchester

This didn't happen because of music, video games or tv. I can almost guarantee that the leader of this pack was severly abused in some way shape or form. Perhaps sexually abused. If you look at serial killers or the perpetrators of horrific crimes there almost always a history of severe abuse. That is what creates the rage factor. I think it's naive to think that video games are creating these monsters. I'm sure they contribute but abuse is the underlying factor. I'm sure if they investigated deep enough they would be able to confirm this. That is my opinion.
- Mary, Beverly, Ma

And I am sickened by comments such as Aaron's... that seem to be more concerned with protecting the criminals. Innocent people being put to death? Please - how about the number of innocent VICTIMS who didn't have a choice? These criminals had a choice, and their choice was to kill. What if it were your family member that was brutally slain? Would you feel differently? I cannot agree with your position at all. Prayers for that poor family....
- Lee, Manchester

As I stated in my post yesterday volunteerism can make a difference. Some people get upset that I constantly "plug" volunteerism but, having been a foster parent and having taught for 8 years at Hillsborough County jail I have seen first hand the value of intervention in this age groups lives. Human life is a precious thing that should be valued and respected. If through our good works we can influence young people in the path of righteous behaviour senseless tragedies like these will not occur.
- Greg Barrett, Manchester

If found guilty, there is only on answer. Death. You don't rehabilitate murderers.
- Drew, Mancheseter

As a father of 3 I can not imagine what her husband is thinking right now. I can speak to what I am thinking though.
My wife and children are my life they are what wakes me up in the morning and sings me to sleep at night.
Justice or no justice a hugh part of Mr. Cates life has been destroyed. Justice demands we follow the written law.
Are these children? Are they minors? Did the satisfy the conditions of the statues of law that requires the death penalty?
To this I do not know. But for Mr. Cates whatever the outcome it must be just. We as citizens of this state must demand that crimes of this nature are not only prosucted but done so in such a way as to deter this horrible crime from ever happening again.

Mr Cates My heart goes out to you. I hope and pray that along with friends and clergy you can rise from this terrible crime that has been commited against you.
- Peter Spear, Litchfield

Note to "Aaron" -- these are not kids, these are young monsters. Who in their right mind would ever want them loose again in society?
- George, Nashua

$500,000 bond for first degree murder? New Hampshires criminal justice system is a joke! I'm sorry but here in Florida, there's no way that anyone charged with a capitol crime would be entitled to bail no matter what the amount. And a conviction would bring a life sentence with no possibility of parole or the death penalty. Wake up New Hampshire. You've let too many liberals from Massachusetts into your state!
- Joe D, Sunrise, FL

I couldn't say if they would ever end up participating in crimes such as these if they had never met one another, but I believe these young men would have eventually sought out others like themselves. It's a shame that these kids' parents did not pay closer attention to who their children were hanging out with. I realize there is only so much parents can do with willful children, but who knows how things may have turned out if they had intervened earlier.
- Erin, Charlotte, NC

if the system had been harder on these guys in their prior brushes with the law, we could have gotten them off the streets BEFORE an innocent mother had to die and her 11 year old child be put into the ICU. we can't go easy on criminals like this. change the system, change the laws, or enforce the existing laws. whatever it takes. protect innocent people from people who won't behave again and again. that's why we pay taxes. so we can sleep at night without being gored by repeat offenders who are set free again and again.
- Mark, Bow

My prayers go out to many people: to the Cates family, to the families of the alleged killers, and for this country. Should we be shocked at the level of violence when we believe that the best way to teach that killing people is wrong is by killing people via the death penalty?If we as a nation stop glorifying violence, perhaps the bloodshed and senselessness of such acts would cease
- Tom Cloutier, SFO, Manchester

I can't begin to understand the anguish that must envelope Mr Cates. Without any further delay, he should be allowed to exact repayment of the terrible debt owed on these vermin and the parents that spawned them. We should all live in fear that this is an example of the children we are raising. Hey parents.... wake up! Enough with the "time outs" and all this "feel good" garbage that you read in some parenting manual! There are times when your kid needs a good swift kick in the ass, they need to have a little fear and respect for your authority as a parent, and by extension, other adults and figures of authority. Learn to say "NO!" to your kids, be a parent first, friendship will come if you deserve it, but you'll have their respect. This generation of 12-25 yr olds, generally speaking" knows nothing of real world respect. They've learned it from what they think they know about being a "gangsta" or "thug"... maybe listening to rap(of course our parents hated our music too). I'm not saying that something like this would never happen again, but how often did it happen 30-40 yrs ago, and before that? Of course it's not 100% parenting... but don't blame the system... your kids are YOUR responsibility, no one elses, no matter what the government would like you to think. This heinous crime makes me sick, what society has become makes me sicker.
- Mike LaMontagne, Raymond

I think it would be great if you all stepped back and thought why were these young men so alienated from society. We are losing many, many young boys away from a life of normalcy, even from great families. It is not always the parents fault! How many of the four are products of YDC? Also known as the Sununu Youth Services Center. Probably at least one or two them spent some time there. I think that should be looked into and if they did go there, YDC should be held accountable for their worthless program.
- Michelle, Manchester

The murder of Kim Cates and attempted murder of her daughter is shocking and horrific and I will keep the Cates family in my prayers. Rest in peace Kim

I have a question and would be interested to hear other posters' thoughts. If these four men had never met would this horrible crime have occured? For example, if Clyde had never met Bonnie, do you think Bonnie would have led a life of crime and vice-versa? Is it the combination of personalities that brings out the worst in some people or do you truly believe that some people are just pure evil and that at some point all of these men would've murdered or taken part in a murder...

I am struggling with this, and I'm looking for answers as we all are.
- Kathleen, Chester, NH

it just makes you ignorant to the facts that show that the death penalty is not an added deterrent and that our justice system is not the be all end all.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME????? Show me a murderer convicted and sentenced to death that commits another murder!!! Maybe then I'll believe in ghosts. Don't get me wrong I am a liberal......but not bleeding heart Liberal!
- Dave, New boston

My heart goes out to David as he looks after his daughter - and to his daughter Jaime, my best wishes and strongest prayers for a full recovery.
- Thomas, Candia

Nobody has asked the question....How did this happen to young adults?
This is not new.
Let me remind you of the random killing of the couple in Hanover a few years ago.
All for robbery.
- joco, manchester, nh

Alot of energy generated toward the people charged with the murders. Maybe that is theraputic. I won't give these thugs one minute of my time. I will however make sure to pray for Mr. Cates and his daughter as well as Mrs. Cates.
- Mike, Manchester

I am truly sickened by everyone's comments here calling for the death penalty. First of all, none of these boys crimes meets the requirements for a death penalty case. Secondly, who in their right mind is calling for the death penalty for kids? These are kids! For those of you quoting tax money, perhaps you should research the fact that the death penalty costs more than imprisoning someone for life. Why? Because of the lengthy appeals process and all the litigation involved. Don't believe me? Look here: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty Also, putting someone to death is letting them off the hook. I would rather at least two of these boys spend their lives in prison and have to think about their heinous crimes. Calling for the death penalty doesn't make you hard on crime, it just makes you ignorant to the facts that show that the death penalty is not an added deterrent and that our justice system is not the be all end all. Many people have been falsely accused and unfortunately innocents have suffered the death penalty. Anyone advocating for the death penalty in this case or any other is putting their emotions before their mind. Think about it people.
- Aaron, Hooksett, NH

Mindless empty shells of human form. Wrapped up in a culture void of meaning and the values of respect, dignity, and the gift of life. This is what you have in a Hollywood culture when traditional basic values no longer apply. Well done baby boomers.....
- Mike, Raymond

Mindless empty shells of human form. Wrapped up in a culture void of meaning and the values of respect, dignity, and the gift of life. This is what you have in a Hollywood culture when traditional basic values no longer apply. Well done baby boomers.....
- Mike, Raymond

And there are still bleeding hearts in this country that are against the death penalty. Wake up people.
- Bill, Wolfeboro

Folks read the death penalty statute. It is NOT only applicable to the murder of law enforcement. There are numerous situations where the death penalty is applicable including during a kidnapping and sexual assault (Melvin). I do agree that these creatures would be perfect candidates for the death penalty.
- Quinn, Bow

The answer to why these types of horrid incidents continue to occur, can be found when the parent(s) of these individuals simply look in the mirror.
- Mike, Londonderry

This crime rivals that of 911. My heart and prayers go out to all the Cates family and friends. I can only pray that our court system justly punishes all those involved. I agree with Bill, the tax payers of NH should not have to support any of these animals during incarceration..
- Harry, Loudon

These 4 teens make me sick! Bring back the death penalty!

My prayers go to the family of the mom who lost her life and the daughter who almost lost hers. May their be justice to what happened to your family.
- sue, pembroke

"He (Delker) said the crime does not qualify for the death penalty under New Hampshire's limited capital murder statute.

Well I guess it's time we expanded our capital murder statute in New Hampshire. This crime, like the murder of the Zantops, deserves nothing less than death. A long, slow, painful one at that!
- DCF, Laconia

I'm a mother of 2 teens and 1 adolescent child.
This is a MAJOR parenting issue! There will NEVER be a time I don't check my teenagers txt messages and phone calls, there will NEVER be a time I don't check up on their FaceBooks and MySpaces, there will NEVER be a time I don't search their rooms! These are my children and my responsibility! If and when they EVER step over the line, you can be sure there will be discipline!
One of those "kids" comes home at 4 am and doesn't speak!? NO WAY! Not in my home! He comes home with a 4 to 5 inch knife! FOR WHAT!!??
As a parent you will always be surprised if you don't ask questions and stay involved. You may sometimes be surprised if you ask questions and stay involved. People think it's the younger years where you need to be hands-on with your children. I don't agree. You know where they are when they're young, when they start to grow up: ask questions, know their friends, get involved and in their face...this is loving them!
- Debbie, NH

My heart goes out to the Cates family... I truly hope that this is a wake-up call to so many other parents who have teens that are misguided... you brought these children into the world and yes, it is YOUR obligation to your child and society to teach them right from wrong... and when you know that they are taking the wrong path then it is YOUR job to do something about it...
- Sue, Milford NH

I can only prey that the next time one or a group of trash like this decide to break into someone’s house they are greeted with a load of Buckshot. That would be only fair, maybe too good for them.
Randomly plan to kill a mother and child?
You can't rehabilitate or counsel this out of them. They are simply defective.
How long are we as a society going to put up with this crap?? Live in fear, Bull. Be responsible and expect the same…..
This group needs to be taken out of the gene pool ASAP. No more threat.
- Joe, Chester

You honestly think these insane young men would be deterred by a death penalty? Why give them credit for that much rationality? How they thought they could get away with this in any sense confounds any kind of logic.
The death penalty is irrelevant to most murderers. It is a corrupting force on most citizens and forces us into complicity with violence. I'm not saying this sort of killer deserves anything good; I'm saying we don't want to be like them.
- Laura Jefferson, Henniker

This crime is a repeat of the Zantop murders a few years ago. Young men who have no respect for the law or human life out for a joy ride with murderous intentions. I would like to thank all of the police investigators for bringing this to a speedy arrest, good work!

My heart goes out to the dad who is now trying to piece his life together with a dead spouse and a daughter who is clinging on to life by a thread. I cannot even imagine how he is going to reconcile this, God be with him and his family...

Do not let the legislature eliminate the death penalty, if they do we will see more of this behavior...
- Bob, Derry

I grew up with steve, went to church with him, played paintball with him, but ever since about sophomore year, when he went to jail the first time he's changed. i still find it hard to believe...he could do something like this. But he deserves the worst sentence available. This is not right.
- Ryan Bretschneider, Brookline NH

There are two death penalty cases in waiting. One is the the Gary Sampson case and the other is Michael Addison. Both of these cases have been in waiting for several years and they are clearly not going to be reversed or changed. Why does it take so long to execute those that have taken a life, have been convicted, and sentenced to death? As a tax payer AND a family member of one of the victims, I am outraged that part of my taxes paid goes to feed and house these animals. This case is to me another clear open and shut case. What is disturbing is not charging the other two with accessories to murder when they clearly entered, had weapons with intent to brutally use, and were physically present when these murders were executed. This family and anyone associated with this family will have years of healing in front of them. Our family will never be the same as the result of what Sampson did. I hope the father and daughter can find peace some day.
- MIke, Londonderry

These four had a history of interaction with law enforcement related to drug possession, theft, etc. yet they had faced no real consequences. Are there still people out there who think we should coddle offenders, continue giving them second, third, fourth chances? Escalation of criminal behavior is real; it needs to be stopped as the law provides before the offenders move on to something like this disgusting, brutal and incomprehensible act.
- shannon, concord

I have a question I am sure some reader can answer: How is bail applied and determined?

It seems to me that these four would pose a risk to any community they were released in, particularly given the random nature of the violence. Why would any of them qualify for bail?

If someone could explain it, I would appreciate it. I am sure there is some formula, but it is a mystery.

My hearts and prayers go out to the victim's husband and family, the community at large and the poor little girl. What an awful way to start your teenage years.
- Bill, Concord

Bill for Bedford, I was thinking the exact same thing. It is about time that the Legislators stop playing politics and start representing the people. It is time to change the law and broaden the use of the death penalty. Oh, and maybe they should appropriate funds to build an execution chamber. Our state penalties are weak and enforcement of them are even weaker.
- 10Ring, Warren

How do 4 people decide to randomly kill a stranger?

I can understand a murder;
to cover another crime,
for revenge,
in passion,
the lone serial killer,
as an impulse,
but to conspire and plan, the seek out the victim...

Other charges likely will be added. Can't see where the death penalty would have stopped these beasts.
- Jim, Hampton

All four of those low lifes should be charged with murder. They won't be so tough once their in prison. I hope their lives in prison are a living hell. And the lawyer who said $500,000 bail is excessive is a moron. I think their should have been a much higher bail or even better no bail at all. I really hope all four of them get life sentences.
- Nicole, Bedford

I don't even know what to say here. I just cannot comprehend this crime. My heart and prayers go out to this family and their loved ones, the entire town, and all the lives this crime has ripped apart. It is the most senseless act. I am just shaken by this story.
- Stacey, Manchester

How was the crime discovered, WHO called 911? Did one of them have a conscience?
- Don, Exeter

This is horrible. I can't imagine the terror in that house. I can relate to this because I have a small daughter and have of course been home alone with her. This story is any mother's worst nightmare. On both ends.

All I can think about is what was going through this poor mother's mind while this was happening. And the little girl.

I hope these young "men"(poor excuses for men) get what they deserve. They need to institute an eye for an eye in this case and others like.

Seriously how can you go into someones home and hack them to death. And than a small child.I just can't imagine what kind of "men" these are.
- Laurie, Allenstown

As a NH native it saddens me to see such violence overcoming NH. I certaintly concur with those who desire to rewrite the death penalty statute in NH and the conspiracy law as well. All 4 should suffer the fate that they imposed on Mrs. Cates.
- Herman Bishop, Adams, MA

you mean to tell me that the other two have lesser charges when they could have stopped the crime. that is just wrong. the other two boys/men are just as responsible for the death of this young woman and attempted murder on this little girl, as the two who actually did the deed. i cannot even imagine what this dad is feeling at this moment but i sincerely pray he has the strength to cope with this terrible situation.
- sharon a., springfield, vermont

My heart goes out to the families of the victims as well as the perpetrators. No one images their child could be capable of this. Chilling. One of them went to school the next day? My God, those poor students were sitting next to a murderer in class! The brutality is incomprehensible. October was when Tricia Doyle and her children were murdered as was Edith Riley and her fiancé last year (in October). What is going on with the anger and rage?
- SL, Manchester

It is disconcerning that this young person, because he is not a man, after killing one person and almost killing a second says on facebook that Dexter is such a funny show. Those who don't know that show is about a cop who is a serial killer at night. This is a showtime show that perhaps begins to make another argument around tv and violence. I think the parents need to take responsibility to some extent although he is 19 and is supposed to be considered an adult. I think parents need to pay attention to their kids and what they are doing more often and give advice even if they don't want it. That is my advice as a non-parent though, so what do parents think? And, yes, Death Penalty all the way for all of them. That will send a message. This won't be tolerated in our society.
- Mike, manchester

Respect and love for others is dwindling. Empty hearts and minds are filled instead with violent images and filthy pornography from media sources. Violence and porn rob a person of their conscience. It is tragic that these young men didn't choose to avoid evil influences. They destroyed their lives as well when they destroyed the life of the Cates family.
- Brenda, Hooksett

K N, Chester:

I think you are a little off. Can you blame the parents for what their adult children did, no. However, when you expect your son home at 11 pm and he doesn't respond to repeated texts and shows up at 4 AM without saying anything don't you think, as a parent, you should investigate? A "Where the hell were you young man" might be a good place to start. In this situation if I hadn't heard back from my child I would have called the local and state police and possibly a local hospital to see if he/she had been in an accident. While the parents are not responsible for the act, the parent looking for their child may have been able to prevent the act. You indicate that we should blame liberal politicians and their laws. This makes little sense to me. The law is clear, murder is a crime and they did not seem to care. Is there a stricter law that would have stopped them? They clearly had no regard for life and the article says they went there knowing they would kill whoever was inside. I'm not sure there is a law strong enough to stop that. They don't seem too concerned with the consequences. I would suggest you not lump all teens into a category of not caring. Throughout history there have been many people from many different generations who have committed heinous crimes. The fact that they are teens doesn't seem to have that much to do with it. What happened here was terrible but let's put the blame at the feet of the perpetrators and not distort it with looking for others to blame. They made a choice, a horrible, awful, life altering choice. Those that are guilty of this crime should pay for it.
- Ann, greater Manchester

There is so much that people don't know ... yet they keep stating their opinions. My guess is that the the two Souhegan teens turned on the others which is why we have so many details and they weren't charged with first degree murder. There is so much we don't know: who made the 4am 911 call?

This was cold-blooded, thrill murder and the guilty should live their lives in misery
- David, Bedford

all the death penalty does is give the convict a private room and access to the law library and more lawyer visits. put them in the general population and don't let them out ........ever.
- Rick, Bradford

If this was premeditated murder, why shouldn't they be eligible for the death penalty?

In my mind this type of premeditated act is more deserving of death than the impulsive act committed by Michael Addison. Goes to show how unfair our death penalty is, at least as it's applied. Addison dies but these monsters live forever in prison? What a joke.
- John, Seabrook, NH

- Nemi, Keene you make a good point on the weak charges against Marks and Glover.

This guy Delker seems weak to me - I hope he is aggressive and effective in prosecuting this case - I have a terrified wife and two young children that I worry about. We expect protection by our government from thugs like this and when they are caught we also expect and deserve swift and complete justice!
- Tom Parnell, Hooksett, NH

Do any of these young men have a mother, sister, Aunt or Grandmothers? We know one at least had a girl friend because he drove her home...she is safe.
- Elizabeth, Mont Vernon NH

I am truly disgusted by these four. I am equally disgusted with "shock" of Mr. Marks. It is second nature to defend your children, but how did you not see the writing on the wall ? I realize they made the decision on their own, but rest assured, if my child or child's friend showed up with a switch-blade, they would not have left with it.

Thank you so much to the departments involved in capturing them so quickly.
- Daniel Carlen, Mont Vernon

There is no doubt, they should revisit the death penalty in this State. These 4 animals have destroyed a innocent family. I feel bad for all families involved. you cannot blame their parents, blame the system, and the politicians with these liberal laws, and not being able to hold kids responsible, and apply proper disipline, both at home and at school, this is the result. It seems that this generation of kids, have lost all respect for others. Trust me they will not be tough, when they get to prison, real inmates just LOVE, punks like these, that commit crimes against kids, and women. They will get their just rewards
- K N, chester

The NH statute could be applied in the future to cover "any murder committed during a burglary or other felony". As it is now, I believe that murder committed during rape and kidnapping qualify as well as the murders of judges, police officers, correctional officers and murders for hire.

We'll be lucky if our legislators keep the death penalty after this case has drifted off into the courts. The practice of the NH AG's office has been to bring these heinous cases to court in a very timely manner and let's hope they do that now.

With any luck, we may hear the governor use this nasty case as a reason to eliminate the clemency boards that are about to recommend the early parole and release of two men who murdered their spouses, one by a vicious stabbing spree.
- Melvin, Keene

The father states that since marks and spader have been hanging out together since April, they have been back and forth to court.....shouldn't that have been the clue to step up and say to YOUR son I do not want you to hang out with that Spader kid...You can't control if they hang out together at school but you can keep them from seeing each other after school You are the PARENT! Set some ground rules...Why was he out until 4:30am in the morning? When I grew up we had curfew...If we broke it we were grounded and our cars were taken away...and that would be the last time we broke it. I am sorry but I can not feel bad for these parents...My heart goes out to the father who is at the hospital dealing with losing the love of his life and dealing with how to explain to his severely injured child why these so called men chose to hurt her and why they took her mommy from her. Sick!
- Tarra, new hamtpon nh

What these young men are alleged to have done goes beyond horrific. But should we be overly surprised when we as a people call for the death penalty as a means of showing that killing people who kill people is the way to show killing people is wrong? My prayers are with Cates family also, but I also pray for the alleged killers and their families as well
- Tom Cloutier, SFO, Manchester

Agree with other posts; there is no reason in this world why this barbaric crime should NOT qualify for the death penalty. And I also agree that the 2 who were not charged with conspiracy to commit murder should be; they probably made an agreement with them to turn on the other 2 for lesser charges....thats the way it works. Which is a damn shame because with premeditated murder plans one can only expect they will do something like this again in the future. They are evil. My heart goes out to the family of this woman and her daughter.
- Joyce F, Londonderry NH

Reading this story, I am not surprised at their actions. Nowhere was there a consequence for their prior actions. I am also glad to see that they are being refered to as young men (Delker) while everyone else calls them teenagers. Teenager paints a whole different picture than young men. Hopefully they will be tried as adults and find out the "consequence" of prison life. They were pretty emolden to enter a house figuring they had the victims out numbered and surprised by their brutal attack w/their weapons. Young men, your life is over as you have known it. Thank goodness for us.
- Michael King, Epping

God Bless the Paramedic staff on call that night for saving this little girl.
- A Big Sister/Saddened Reader, Burlington, VT

If "[a]ll four of the defendants were aware when they entered the house that the intention was to kill the occupants inside," WHY are Marks and Glover not charged with conspiracy to commit murder? 629:3 is clear, and the AG should pursue every applicable charge against these thugs.
- Nemi, Keene

My prayers are with the family.
- shellslyn, Tucson, AZ

"He said the crime does not qualify for the death penalty under New Hampshire's limited capital murder statute."

That is a damn shame. I can hardly think of a crime more deserving of the death penalty than randomly hacking a mother and daughter to death with machetes while they sleep in their beds. It is miraculous that the girl survived.
- Jim T, Manchester

If the Governor and Legislators are reading this; you can make a difference. Change the laws NOW so that The Death Penalty can be more widely applied. This could happen to anyone; anywhere. These animals, if convicted, do not deserve to live and we should not have to support them while they are incarcerated.

Enough is enough.
- Bill, Bedford NH