YOUR COMMENTS

Sorry Charlie. You can't play the "balanced debate" card when the discussion focuses on taxes. A truly balanced debate would give spending reductions equal time.

By your logic, it would be "nonsense" for me to prohibit a family discussion about setting fire to my house. Some acts are thoroughly repugnant and should not be on the table. An income tax is one of them.

You're also missing the point about the purpose of these talks. They're not held as a good-faith effort to determine the best solutions to budgetary problems (as proven by the weak role spending cuts receive.) They're window dressing for a predetermined outcome.
- Jim Peschke, Croydon, NH

Charlie is absolutely correct, we shoudl vigorously debate taxing and spending. Hey wait isn't tax and spend a democrat slogan?

We should vigorously debate them and be prepared to contact our state reps before they vote. They do represent us do they not?

I do agree with the points about the democratic party becoming radicalized and having no intention of an honest debate. The fcat that the presenters are from out of state attests to this. The big question is will New Hampshire residents fight to keep this state income and sales tax free? I for one will be contacting each of my reps and if they refuse to answer as the did with HCR 6, will be making house calls until I speak with each of them.

Let them discuss whatever they must, but make sure the citizens they represent, not out of state special interest groups have the last and loudest voice.
- Michael Layon, Derry

I thought Grant's live blog gave a good flavor of the event so far(nhwatchdog.blogspot.com). Both the tax hikers and the more sensible side talked. The NH economists and business people were substantially more interesting than the nationals. I like debates and think the right is beating the left so far (but then again I would).

I think the one source of agreement has been that many of our taxes are too high with the majority favoring lowering the overall tax burden.

As I say, I think the smaller government side tends to be more persuasive than the left in open debate. That's why I don't avoid the opportunity to explain why more liberty and less government are good things.
- Charlie Arlinghaus, canterbury

http://macrenovation.com/whatsatstake.pdf
- Bruce MacMahon, Brentwood

If you want an income or sales tax you should vote for it and anyone who votes in favor should be forced to pay the income and sales tax while everyone who votes against it should be exempt from paying it.
- Jay, Manchester

Instead of whining, lets discuss less government spending!
- Vic, Derry

@everyone who thinks this is just fine and dandy:

Yes, no one said there wasn't 'some' conservative representation there but none with such clout as those leftist groups that are routinely funded by international multi-billionaires who have an agenda that isn't inclusive of mainstream NH views.

If that gets you angry, it should. What right do they have to influence the locals to levy more taxes, or run our schools for that matter? We've lost local control.

For example, GSFTC is not a grassroots group and is even deceptively named, because it's just a front group for these outsiders.

A little digging reveals all...
- Sue, Manchester

By the way, we're live blogging the Tax Summit, both today and tomorrow, over at NHWatchdog.blogspot.com
- Grant Bosse, Manchester, NH

Opponents of higher taxes should always welcome tax supporters talking about higher taxes. The alternative is for pro-tax lawmakers to sneak about in the tall grass, waiting to ambush taxpayers unawares.

This tax summit will help flush out the arguments for and against New Hampshire tax structure, and changes to it like a sales or income tax.

I'd much rather have that debate loudly and publicly now than let pro-tax lawmakers run for re-election without telling voters where they stand.
- Grant Bosse, Manchester, NH

People might want to actually read the agenda before criticizing this event as a "fix" from "out-of-state." The agenda, which is posted on the NH House website, clearly states that the "national tax perspectives" (the out of state part) is the first hour and a half of a two-day event. The last day and three-quarters is entirely NH-based with presentations from NH economists, NH buisnesses, and NH organizations. "Conservatives" are just as represented as "liberals." Read the agenda for yourselves.

http://gencourt.state.nh.us/house/newsroom/October/10-20-2009%20revenue%20agenda.pdf

The "complain first, ask questions later" attitude of the UL comments section never ceases to amaze me.
- Dan, Manchester

Charlie, I am disappointed. You are echoing the liberal line of "let's just have the discussion... what harm can that do?". This forum is akin to a Stalinist show trial - bring in out of state groups to pontificate about how income taxes are wonderful then the committee chair, a known proponent of the income tax, uses that as cover to push for the tax.

Why weren't local taxpayer groups invited to speak - like CNHT and NHAC?
- Mark, Amherst

First the unions and now this? Charlie what dirt does the left have on you? Over the last few months you have have become a spokesman first for the anti-business unions, and now the pro taxers. Talk about bizzaro world.
- Alex K., Deering, NH

Exactly how many anti-tax groups from out of state were asked to give a presentation? Exactly zero, so until the playing field is leveled, state GOP'ers have every right to protest the inclusion of groups supported by outside interests. Why should we listen, much less give any credence to anyone who doesn't have some skin in the game?
- Kevin, Campton

Obviously some of the income or sales tax supporters in the forum will talk about "fairness", and how the property tax is "unfair."

I support the property tax based system. It lets us know exactly how much government services cost. "Tax the other guy" schemes might sound good, but take a look at all the states where there is an income tax, flat or progressive. Most of them are a fiscal mess compared to New Hampshire, even with our problems.

Once an income or sales tax is in place, the political pressure to overestimate revenues to fund favored programs will be great, and we would still find ourselves with even more serious fiscal problems, like NY, California, NJ, Illinois, and Massachusetts. And, many of those states resort to raising the rates as soon as there is a shortfall. I have no doubt that would happen here too.

And these taxes will likely be sold as "replacing" the state portion of the property tax. I don't believe that will happen, based on other states' experiences. Maybe for a few years, at best....

Also look at the economies of those states with income and sales taxes, and their unemployment rates. While I agree with those who believe there is an agenda here to rationalize a new tax, I think the facts will favor keeping the NH advantage.
- Ditmar Kopf, Hollis

Charlie is missing the big picture. The most troublesome aspect of this forum is the environment in which it is being held. The premise is this: Accepting that state government needs to spend far beyond the ability of current revenue sources to fuel the growth, what is the best, fairest, and most efficient way to reconfigure our revenue stream and dramatically increase taxes?

This is like debating the best way to evacuate the Titanic AFTER it hits the iceberg. There is still time to steer the ship clear of the ice field and we should focus on that. Much as I respect Mr. Arlinghaus, he is providing the big spending Democrats with priceless cover. He should know better than to allow himself to be used like this.


Jim Buttolph
- Jim, Buttolph

Charlie, you’ve lost your mind. Spike is right as is Jay from Laconia. Where are the experts from NH who know our situation and are best equipped to give expert advice and guidance? No, the legislature doesn’t want anyone who might conceivably not be pro-income tax to be given any forum. The sole purpose of this sham of a conference is to provide a cover for the income tax bill that is already sitting in the cue waiting to be “debated” by our tax and spend legislature.
- Sandy, Thornton

Criticize any political party you want; they all have been detrimental to this country because of the individual corrupt practices and self-serving actions of the individuals that are involved in the political process. Implementing new taxes in the absence of citizen participation is the problem. Giving a middle class living to those who don't work and choose not to make the sacrifices that others do to support themselves is wrong headed and that's why America is failing. So much of our tax money is giving politicians rich lives, their buddies rich lives, and supporting programs to buy votes from people who think they can leach off others' hard work. If government acted responsibly, then there wouldn't be as much contention over how we are taxed.
- LynnG, Dover

PS to Jeff of Goffstown--I cannot understand how a fellow libertarian can deal in tripe such as taxation "fairness," not understand the utility of having NH have lower taxes than surrounding states, and think he can reduce his tax burden by shifting it to someone else. Concord can only reduce Goffstown's taxes (as the price for an income tax) with a cash transfer that will not be forthcoming in future years, though the income tax will be permanent. More likely, you know this and are just another liberal, lying as always to attract more notoriety to your opinion by claiming it comes from the other side.
- Spike, Brentwood NH

I'm no fan of taxes. I'm also not in favor of bigness and waste at any government level. However, we all recognize the need for government to play a role in our society. Defining that role could be debated indefinitely. But, whatever that role is requires funding.

Most every NH resident has an opinion how that funding should be generated, and personal situations are reflected in those opinions.

Right now in NH, the best situation is to receive a large salary, have little in the form of taxable savings or investments, and pay rent rather than a mortgage. If that's you, congratulations; you pretty much enjoy a free ride here.

On the other hand, reverse that set of conditions and you pick up NH's tab. That describes many part-time workers and retirees.

I fall into the latter category. I would appreciate the ways and means folks finding some way and means of providing property tax relief for me and others in similar situations.
- Brian, Lancaster

YES, a debate on revenue is a necessity!! As any debate goes, ALL views need to be expressed, not just the anti-ones. If only one side is invited, then only one side heard. I have to ask, why are the anti's so afraid of a debate? I suspect that is because they do NOT have a firm and solid argument -- and know it!
It could also be that their attitude is fraught with their typical "me first" and "my way" attitudes or the one that says they think they know best for all of us. What they really know, is that they do not want to pay their fair share of their costs of government. In other words, they want the entire cake and to eat the entire cake without sharing event a tidbit with anyone else. That is a real "me" philosophy.
Charlie, thanks for expressing a bit of reality. What is also real is the fact that NH does not have a master plan regarding essential core services. Without such a plan, this debate is premature because they do NOT know how much is needed, as a minimum.
- Gary L. Kerr, Chichester

I recall and mention it often: the Gov. Jeanne Shaheen traveling “Blue Ribbon Committee on NH Taxes.” The Blue Ribbon group visited Interlakes High School (Meredith) for their forum - I was there. I spoke - right after a NH legislator suggested that the committee really did not have to listen to those of us who were speaking in opposition to a sales or income tax, which we believed was the point: Shaheen wanted “new revenue streams” and this committee hand-picked by her would provide the support for such taxes. The committee chairman was more considerate than the Republican legislator who later became a congressman. bnyoung@metrocast.net
- Niel Young, Laconia

The invited groups might be left, right, and center, but the inviters are the socialist leaders of the House. In other words, the fix is in. In advocating participation, the author gives me the impression he would rather sit at the table with the grown-ups (even participating in, and giving legitimacy to, a sham conference and its preordained result) than defend my liberty. I agree with Jay Collins: This is exactly why Republicans find themselves in the minority.
- Spike, Brentwood NH

Looks like someone is letting the water out of Charlie's "think tank".
- Thomas Thorpe, Portsmouth, NH

As a conservative leaning libertarian, I recognize that essential government services require money and that the money comes from the people in the form of taxes. I also recognize that the current property tax is a far worse burden on the population that pays it directly than would be an income tax, which I also loath. Still, an income tax would spread the pain more fairly to those who can afford it. If my income varies, my tax varies. Not so the burdensome property tax which only goes up every year. If, and only if, we drastically reduce the property tax should the state impliment a fair income tax. Please spare me the crap about the "New Hampshire Advantage". The "Advantage" is smoke and mirrors given how we do have a dracoian property tax and outragos fees on nearly everything else.
- Jeff, Goffstown

I think that Mr Arlinghaus is largely correct

Nonetheless I find it to be EXTREMELY troubling that all of these groups that were invited were from out of state and NO ONE from NH is allowed to speak at this discussion.

This is NH and I'll be damned if someone from another state is going to be allowed to TELL us how we should run our state.
- JP, Warner

I expected better of Charlie...and for him to name the whiners please for some credibility? Fact is, these people did not think to invite NH people who work with tax issues all the time. Oh sure, Charlie's group was invited and a few token conservative businessmen, but not the nitty gritty groups that have their feet in the trenches. The fix is in with these groups, and yes many of us DO resent the billions of dollars of outside funding that fuels the NHDP and their taxing minions. (And not afraid to say it!)
- Sue, Manchester

George Soros in NH, Ugh. One very very big reason to vote Democrats out in NH. Quickly.
- Bob, Salem

People like Charlie Arlinghaus are why the NHGOP finds itself out of power in NH. Notice Charlie spends most of the artilce attacking conservatives, and has praise for NH Rep. (by way of NYC) Almy. First Charlie: these democratic "Reps" should be working to cut future spending, and controling the growth of the budget. What we don't need is some silly tax policy meeting when we already know what their answers are going to be. There is nothing new that's going to come out of these meetings that we don't already know.

As you & your fellow RINOS play nice.....the NH democratic party has been cutting the NHGOP to pieces because they play for keeps....it's called hardball, and the NHGOP has forgot how to play. Second: there is no real debate going on here. The NH democrats control every sector of NH government top to bottom. They are just putting on a show.....acting like they are listening to all sides, but the fix is in. This meeting is a waste of time.

I can see Buckley & Sullivan sitting back now and laughing themselves silly as you take an axe to your fellow conseratives in this article. Get a clue Charlie......this tax-meeting is like those old Soviet style show-trials, and no self-respecting conservative should be wasting their time being involved with this foolisness why NH falls deeper & deeper into fiscal chaos.
- Jay Collins, Laconia

I was under the impression that we have this debate every year during legislative session. Of course, this might be the first time that national organizations are heard...
- John Edward Mercier, Belmont