A hidden agenda: What cap opponents really want

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By the way, Comrade Ed Staub, what about that little trick a few months ago about getting a popular referendum question off the ballot? The referendum was obtained legitimately through the proper collection of enough signatures, but then the "Gang of Eight" tried to thwart the people's right to vote on it. Doesn't that sound like the USSR to you?
- Nick, Manchester

Peter, I would not call it gutless. Two thirds is not always that easy to get. It might have been easy in Manchester City Hall for the last few years, but what about in the future. Will the parties be more 50-50 by then? And yes, I know people can be voted out, but incumbency is more powerful than many want to admit. How about term limits?

Ed, you claim you want the so-called name calling to stop? Then get your "comrades" to stop calling the cap a "gimmick". It is no gimmick, and to pretend otherwise is a lie. The cap will change, however small, how budgets are created. How dare your allies call it a gimmick?!
- Nick, Manchester

You need a new abacus Sorrentino. What special interest group is pulling your strings? Do you even dress yourself in the morning you milksop?
- Howard Marks, Concord, NH

Two more flyers.....teachers and firefighters........

Seems the ones that are supporting Keeping Manchester Moving are the unions of the City of Manchester. The folks who run the opposition group have stooped to a new low.

This just wants me to vote YES and to proclaim it from the mountain top YES YES YES rejoicing the tax cap. These folks are trying to scare everyone into thinking the city won't plow streets and that losses from fires will be out of control.

Funny I'm the one paying their wages and benefits, I'm having trouble affording living and all they want is more and more and more.

I hope the real taxpayers show up at the polls to elect a financially responsible mayor and board of aldermen. we can only hope the schoolboard gets some conservative people.

VOTE YES! It's your home on the line.
- Jack Alex, Manchester

Dan, Manchester. I was thinking it’s hard to pinpoint the Manchester, NH pro cap group and the organizations funding them because there is no collective group or organizations funding the pro cap supporters.
- Wally, Manchester, NH

Let's see, Eddie writes: The cap reads "the mayor and school district shall not propose total expenditures in an amount exceeding the budget established during the prior fiscal year increased by [the CPI]."

OK, but the Board of Aldermen is not the mayor or school district, and it has demonstrated a willingness time and again to increase the budget more than what the mayor has proposed.

So if a cap requires that the mayor proposes a fiscally punitive budgets and the Board of Aldermen is going to do what it wants with it anyway, then big woof! This is exactly what Mayor Guinta has done with the past couple of budgets - and still the Board of Aldermen gave us tax increases.

I guess that since this really won't do much to change the behavior of the Board of Aldermen - other than the posturing that they do - you're problem is that you don't want what they are already doing spelled out in the law.

If all that the charter admendment ends up doing is to help further define the current roles of Manchester's mayor and aldermen then I'm all for it.
- David R, Manchester

Ed Staub has presented information about the tax cap and observations regarding likely scenarios. I checked the tax cap language (http://www.thenhadvantage.com/content.asp?admin=Y&contentid=85) and find Ed to be correct about the information he presented. Yet, for some reason Nick resorts to name calling, “Comrade,” and his emotional rubbish regarding stopping the government from doing whatever they want and comparisons to the USSR. Nick, you do know we can vote our leaders out of office, don’t you? That’s a little different than the USSR.

Nick, you seem to think that everything in the tax cap is okay due to the 2/3s override provision. If the aldermen can do whatever they want due to the override provision, why enact a tax cap at all? Why would anyone propose such gutless tax restraint?

The last thing these posts need is another nut. Name calling and flaming on about people posting up information is worthless. We already have the UL to do that for us.
- Peter Sorrentino, Manchester

We need the cap. Guinta was a major disappointment as mayor, and most of the alderman and school board could care less about how much the tax rate increases. They are not the ones in the unemployment line. Time we REALLY consider who we are putting in office and kick out the cronies. Elect people that are not afraid to do the job and will actually consider their constituents and not think they know what is best for all.
- Bill, Manchester

You're right, Wally, it shouldn't be too difficult to determine what group is supporting the "tax cap" and who is funding them. That's why it seems so odd that the Union Leader would leave that information out of its editorial. The only reasoning I can think of is that the UL doesn't want its readers to know who is funding the pro-cap campaign.
- Dan, Manchester

Vote on the merits (and demerits) of the cap - not who's supporting it or opposing it.

Having said that... I don't think anyone outside the organization figured out where the New Hampshire Advantage Coalition got its cash. They raised a boatload (>$100,000) last year. It seemed to dry up (coincidentally or not) right around when Guinta was deciding he was running for Congress.

For the last few months, there's been no evidence of significant spending to get the cap passed. It has always appeared that the big-money interests behind it were more interested in using the cap to get out the vote than in actually getting it passed. They might even prefer to see it fail, so they can use it again in two years. Even better would be for it to pass, then get thrown out in the courts - that would really get out the base!
- Ed Staub, Manchester

People who might want to learn more about the tax cap can check out the following:
Brian Gottlob's report on the tax cap: http://pnaction.3cdn.net/db4014bc78f72cfd42_kgm6bxs6p.pdf
Bill Sanders' report: http://pnaction.3cdn.net/273d8c4f7c979377a6_8zm6bzr9s.pdf
A copy of the text of the spending cap: http://www.thenhadvantage.com/content.asp?admin=Y&contentid=85
- Peter Sorrentino, Manchester

Awww now the UL says the Tax Cap is not going to reduce taxes. Now wait that kinda smells funny.
- Kodo, Concord

This article is right on target. I still wonder how many of our public employees live in the city? Unions today are a bain to progress and they are more concerned about their compensation than about being a public servant. Next week, we will remind them who they work for and as long as our paychecks are light, so will be their's as well.
- Hughan, Manchester

Dan, Manchester. What’s the name of the group supporting Manchester, NH’s tax cap? If you find the group responsible for supporting the cap, you’ll be able to find it’s funding source.

Cecil, Manchester. What was the name of the group out of Washington that the news reported was funding Manchester, NH’s tax cap?

Jeff, Manchester. I don’t think Franklin, NH is a “dumpe”.
- Wally, Manchester, NH

Why does this editorial only look at the funding sources for "tax cap" opponents? Why not also examine who is funding the pro-cap campaign?

It would be nice to get factual information on who is funding both sides, so we could see the "agendas" of both cap opponents and proponents. Without comperable information on the other side this editorial looks like nothing more than an attempt to smear the position the Union Leader disagrees with.
- Dan, Manchester

To Maria,
If I remember correctly when the petition first came out a year ago for the tax cap it was in the news that it was funded by a group out of Washington. Touche.
- Cecil, Manchester

What is best for Manchester is preventing a government from disregarding the taxpayer. What is best for Manchester is stopping government from thinking they can do whatver they want with little impediment. The USSR tried to do the opposite. The so-called "comrade junk" is not junk. I will identify any threat to our New Hampshire lifestyle.
- Nick, Manchester

(Sorry for the semi-repeat post earlier, I have a browser cache problem.)

Nick, if I could get odds I'd take them. The CPI has increased by 1.3% or more in only 2 of the 120 3-month intervals over the last ten years. So it's likely to be negative in December.

The cap reads "the mayor and school district shall not propose total expenditures in an amount exceeding the budget established during the prior fiscal year increased by [the CPI]." What does this mean if the CPI goes down? You and I read it differently, I guess. "Increased by", to me, means simple addition. This is one of the areas that the lawyers will get rich off - by my count there are about four such ambiguities in the referendum. Of course, the referendum allows an override by 10 aldermen.

I never read the referendum until a couple of months ago. No one supporting it has ever posted it on the web, at least as I can Google. I finally had to go down to the city clerk's office to get a copy. I've posted it at http://wiki.staubsense.com/index.php?title=The_Annotated_Referendum .

I don't claim to know what's going to happen with real estate prices.

By the way, enough with the "Comrade" junk. As I said before, this debate has degraded into ad hominem attacks that have nothing to do with what's best for Manchester.
- Ed Staub, Manchester

Hey, Franklin has had a tax cap for the last 20 years. Enough said? Would you move there? It's a dumpe. THat's what you have to look forward to!
- Jeff, Manchester

Ed Staub, you are again false. The spending cap will not "require" reductions. Any budget, no matter what the level of spending, can pass with a two-thirds majority, which is how the budgets of the last few years have passed anyway.

If the reassessement, as you say, is in 2011 (not now), valuations can still rise by then. After all, the recession has officially ended in the US this week. You do not know the future.
- Nick, Manchester

The statement that "It would merely prohibit spending from rising faster than the rate of inflation. " is incorrect. The tax cap will probably REDUCE spending in the next two years. The inflation rate for this year is likely to be negative, so the spending cap will require spending reductions. The tax cap includes a tax rate cap (conveniently ignored by most proponents), that, combined with the devaluating reassessment in 2011, will require tax cuts on the order of $20M.
- Ed Staub, Manchester

People please stop whining.

A tax cap would cramp our way of life.

All politicians local, state and national exist to funnel money to some interest that supports them.

We are all happy when we receive the tax break or the handout.

We all get mad when someone else gets the tax break or the handout.

The US will continue to keep giving away your money so someone will not have to lower the price they sell their home forby $8000.

In the city you should realize that money needs to be spent or soon Manchester can follow Detroit and be a wasteland.

Stop being mad at people with a job and a good paycheck and elect people that can control spending, but realize that spending is needed.
- Mike, Manchester

The Aldermen who hired lawyers to fight against our right to control spending in our city are going to be punished by the voters next Tuesday. The Union Leader deserves great credit for its intelligent reporting on this and other municipal issues. Thanks guys!
- Joseph, Manchester

Comrade Ed Staub, if you can predict the future so well, you should partake in the gaming business and earn millions in the casinos.

If you have a better suggestion for an inflation index, why did you not suggest it a year ago when this question was crafted? And if prices have gone down, doesn't it stand to reason that expenditures should go down also?

Looking at the cap itself, it does not require reductions in spending. A close reading of the text indicates that a spending budget that exceeds the rate of inflation can still be passed.
- Nick, Manchester

joe t, I see that you are very much in far left field and in a very deep hole if you believe so many of the unions are "pretty objectively centrist". Many of them are left-wing liberals who keep demanding more, even after getting what they ask. They act in their interest at a level that becomes greed, becomes hurtful to the taxpayer.

If you still do not believe that many in these unions are left-wing, check the party affiliations of their members.
- Nick, Manchester

joe t: Public employees' unions don't represent "workers." Quite the opposite, they represent government employees.
- CDR, Lebanon

No one has a problem with raises, but why do public sector jobs get raises during recessions when no one else does? The price of living has gone down, gas prices are down, but these people demand raises while the rest lose their jobs.
- Jim, Londonderry

There are two sides to every story, where did the money come from to support the other side?

BTW if I get one call or mailer I will vote the other way. Don't call and mail me to tell me how to vote or try and scare me to do one thing or another.
- Maria, Manchester, NH

In considering whether to vote for the cap, voters should only care about what the tax cap will do – not the strange bedfellows that its opponents are. I could discuss the business interests that have funded and are the strongest supporters of it – but I won’t.

Instead, let’s turn to the cap itself. The UL claims that “the spending cap wouldn't automatically cut spending. It would merely prohibit spending from rising faster than the rate of inflation.” It would probably surprise most readers, then , that the cap will probably require spending REDUCTIONS in the next two years.

The September year-to-year change in the Consumer Price Index was -1.3%. It is unlikely that this will rise above 0% by December. If the cap passes, this December number will be the tax cap for next year.

The UL continues to refer to the cap as a “spending cap”. If it were only true. It also includes a provision that prohibits raising the tax rate more than the inflation rate. When a devaluating reassessment occurs, as will happen in 2011, the tax rate may not be raised to compensate. If real estate prices remain flat from today till then, the cap will require a $20M spending REDUCTION. For a sense of scale, this is the cost of the police department or the fire department. There is a clause in the cap that some supporters claim provides relief in a reassessment year, but a close reading of the text does not support this opinion.
- Ed Staub, Manchester

Joe T, McCain looks pretty left because he is. George Bush was also left of center, but the socialists among us weren't happy with that.

The unions who once fought to end the abusive working conditions some people endured in this country were leftist organizations right from the start. They have destroyed many major industries in this country and continue to advocate for ridiculous pay and compensation packages that threaten others.
- Ron, Manchester

Supposing it IS true-why is that so bad?
Oh yes,because it is always a huge conspiracy when unions act in the best interests of the people they represent- the workers.
What if it isn't true?
And how are any of these groups "far left"? To me they are pretty objectively centrist.
For you, however, I guess when you've spent so long in far-right field even McCain can look pretty leftist. Keep digging that hole, UL!
- joe t, manchester, nh

say we pay fifty dollars($50.00) a year for trash pickup that we get every week. the tax cap gets voted in and after a couple years of having the highway budget cut,they decide that trash pickup will be every two(2) weeks instead of every week so they can save money for other needs like snow plowing and salt purchases for winter and road repairs,yet we are still paying X amount of dollars for weekly trash pickup. talk about wasteful spending,go ahead vote the Tax Cap in and lets LOOSE SERVICES that we have and enjoy and we'll still pay for them.
- wally w. tipp, manch

The danger here is that these groups are deeply entrenched in local governments.City employees fraternize regularly with our council members.It would be hard to tell your friend that you will be cutting his pay.This is something that must be voted on by the people.We no longer trust government to do the right thing.The hen has come to an agreement with the fox.
- Jerry, Claremont

Thank you Editors for clearly pointing out who is really behind the anti-spending cap efforts. It's not concerned Manchester citizens like Keep Manchester Moving claims.

Manchester voters - turn your ballot over and vote yes on the spending cap. Your wallet will thank you.
- Ben, Manchester

Cheers to the Union Leader for exposing these groups for what they are: union advocacy groups headed up and funded by some of the most extreme socialist organizations in the state of New Hampshire.
- Andy Demers, Manchester, NH

When are people going to learn who funds these creepy anti-people groups? Dems = outside money for the most part, WAY outside NH, as were the groups who Susan Almy invited to shill for income taxes last week.

WAKE UP people. I'm awake, in fact I cannot sleep for watching what is going on in this country -- they are using OUR OWN TAX dollars against us....
- Sue, Manchester